Philosophy of life, it's meaning, why we are here, what we are capable of.

[Eli]

Not meant to include religious aspects, if you want to, I'm basically sure that you will get an infraction :/

I'll jump in when this starts up and I can make a good debate <3

[C0FFINCASE]

You've posed three large question that mankind has pondered for eons.
I'm going to grab on the philosophy of life though and tell you what ultimately is the mean of life.
People will tell you that the pursuit of pleasure is the meaning to life, people will tell you that wealth is the meaning to life, and people will tell you that the pursuit of knowledge is the meaning to life. Those that seek each to the extreme have been shown over and over to be miserable. Its is a balance of these things that will make you most happy. Moderation is the key to happiness. Happiness is a worth while goal because it is the only thing you can pursue for its own sake. Anything else you try to get or do is ultimately to make you happy. Even people who help people, help to make themselves happy, go ask someone why they volunteer at a soup kitchen and they will say because it makes them feel good. Thus I submit that happiness is the meaning to life.
Now there is a large debate on if we choose to pursue that happiness or are programed to do so, but in the end that's not so important until the issue of the mean/purpose of life is established, which we have done here. Undoubtedly though someone will challenge so I will wait.

[Eli]

You've posed three large question that mankind has pondered for eons.
I'm going to grab on the philosophy of life though and tell you what ultimately is the mean of life.
People will tell you that the pursuit of pleasure is the meaning to life, people will tell you that wealth is the meaning to life, and people will tell you that the pursuit of knowledge is the meaning to life. Those that seek each to the extreme have been shown over and over to be miserable. Its is a balance of these things that will make you most happy. Moderation is the key to happiness. Happiness is a worth while goal because it is the only thing you can pursue for its own sake. Anything else you try to get or do is ultimately to make you happy. Even people who help people, help to make themselves happy, go ask someone why they volunteer at a soup kitchen and they will say because it makes them feel good. Thus I submit that happiness is the meaning to life.
Now there is a large debate on if we choose to pursue that happiness or are programed to do so, but in the end that's not so important until the issue of the mean/purpose of life is established, which we have done here. Undoubtedly though someone will challenge so I will wait.

To an extent I do agree.
As for the meaning of life, I believe that we were created to create, conquer, and live.
To lay ground for the future souls that will come to live on earth, to give them guidelines to rinse and repeat.
I believe that it is a humans duty to perfect the human lifestyle, however that will never come(Possibly?!?!), thus we can only continue improving and expanding.
And this does tie in with your statement, by perfecting the human lifestyle, permanent happiness can be achieved.

[C0FFINCASE]

To an extent I do agree.
As for the meaning of life, I believe that we were created to create, conquer, and live.
To lay ground for the future souls that will come to live on earth, to give them guidelines to rinse and repeat.
I believe that it is a humans duty to perfect the human lifestyle, however that will never come(Possibly?!?!), thus we can only continue improving and expanding.
And this does tie in with your statement, by perfecting the human lifestyle, permanent happiness can be achieved.

There is no perfect human life style and you can't hope for human progress. We are flawed, self serving wretches. We often discard the wisdom of the past and make the same mistakes over and over. At times we throw out all we've accomplished and throw ourselves a hundred years backwards. An then what is improvement? Is life today any better than it was a 100 years ago? Sure its different but can you honestly evaluate it as better or improved? Not in the slightest, in actuality its relatively the same.
Aside from that how can you judge any one life? How can happiness or purpose be measured? Why is your life any more "perfect" than the junkie sticking the needle in his vein? It isn't. An nothing you can create or do will last or even be remembered by the time your grandchildren have kids.
I'd also like to expand on my meaning to life. With life's meaning a happiness there is a logical extension: pain and unhappiness are meaningless. The causes and occurrence are random, cause by chains of events like anything else but those events don't have to have anything to do with you or what you've done. Death can be and thus often is meaningless.

[Eli]

There is no perfect human life style and you can't hope for human progress. We are flawed, self serving wretches. We often discard the wisdom of the past and make the same mistakes over and over. At times we throw out all we've accomplished and throw ourselves a hundred years backwards. An then what is improvement? Is life today any better than it was a 100 years ago? Sure its different but can you honestly evaluate it as better or improved? Not in the slightest, in actuality its relatively the same.
Aside from that how can you judge any one life? How can happiness or purpose be measured? Why is your life any more "perfect" than the junkie sticking the needle in his vein? It isn't. An nothing you can create or do will last or even be remembered by the time your grandchildren have kids.
I'd also like to expand on my meaning to life. With life's meaning a happiness there is a logical extension: pain and unhappiness are meaningless. The causes and occurrence are random, cause by chains of events like anything else but those events don't have to have anything to do with you or what you've done. Death can be and thus often is meaningless.

I beg to differ with those statements.

The first statement that you made, is not true in a sense.

While I do not hope for human progress, I hope for humans to seek progress.
And in time, though we may not live to see it, progress will come.
The very fact that flawed humans seek progress means that our flaws work to our advantage, we have the initiative to want to do better.
The fact that we are flawed creates a gateway for creation, our stupidity creates things that alter history and allows us to create even more.
And simply because there is and most likely never will be a perfect human lifestyle, gives us all the more initiative to use that flaw to our advantage, and try and move closer to an infinitely moving mark of perfection, only leaving room for progress.

Your second statement that I have bolded,

As for whether or not human life has improved, it is undoubtedly.
We have made life easier for ourselves, have we not?
It is the human state of mind that has yet to begin to develop again, it took the early stages of Australopithecus many thousands of years to learn to use tools, it may be the same for the human race before we are able to comprehend the very principals that are here, that we refuse to embrace.

3rd bolded statment
Because I am not sticking a needle in my vein, hoping for the pain of my past decisions to stop chasing me.
I am smart enough to realize that I am here to contribute to this world, that not doing anything will not have a chance to benefit the future.

4th bolded statement
I mean no offense however, I do believe that is completely opinionated bullshit my good fellow.
If I were to murder Fidel Castro, find Hitler's remains, find a cure for cancer, organize charity work in Africa that would benefit and heal the entire country, uncover the Illuminati and destroy them, I do believe that I would be remembered.
However I do not plan to do something on that grand a scale.

5th bolded statement
Causes are not at random, how the occurence plays out can, or cannot be.
Choices are the causes of everything, you control your choices, for the most part.

[C0FFINCASE]

I beg to differ with those statements.

The first statement that you made, is not true in a sense.

While I do not hope for human progress, I hope for humans to seek progress.
And in time, though we may not live to see it, progress will come.
The very fact that flawed humans seek progress means that our flaws work to our advantage, we have the initiative to want to do better.
The fact that we are flawed creates a gateway for creation, our stupidity creates things that alter history and allows us to create even more.
And simply because there is and most likely never will be a perfect human lifestyle, gives us all the more initiative to use that flaw to our advantage, and try and move closer to an infinitely moving mark of perfection, only leaving room for progress.

Your second statement that I have bolded,

As for whether or not human life has improved, it is undoubtedly.
We have made life easier for ourselves, have we not?
It is the human state of mind that has yet to begin to develop again, it took the early stages of Australopithecus many thousands of years to learn to use tools, it may be the same for the human race before we are able to comprehend the very principals that are here, that we refuse to embrace.

3rd bolded statment
Because I am not sticking a needle in my vein, hoping for the pain of my past decisions to stop chasing me.
I am smart enough to realize that I am here to contribute to this world, that not doing anything will not have a chance to benefit the future.

4th bolded statement
I mean no offense however, I do believe that is completely opinionated bullshit my good fellow.
If I were to murder Fidel Castro, find Hitler's remains, find a cure for cancer, organize charity work in Africa that would benefit and heal the entire country, uncover the Illuminati and destroy them, I do believe that I would be remembered.
However I do not plan to do something on that grand a scale.

5th bolded statement
Causes are not at random, how the occurence plays out can, or cannot be.
Choices are the causes of everything, you control your choices, for the most part.

You have no idea if progress will come. Tomorrow we could all die in some comic event or some idiot with a nuke could start a nuclear holocaust and with in a million years its likely humanity will parish, not flourish.
You expect progress because you see the "good" in humanity, but with every step forward we always take a few back. Your view point is that of the turn of the century right before WWII when the world believe one day science would solve all our problems, that technology and human ingenuity could give us all the answers because it was good. If WWII and events like it show any thing, technology, science, and progress are neutral. They can be agents of great good and evil and as the world will show you on a daily basis evil is far more often the driving force.

Easy does not equal better. These things are not mutually inclusive and often involve opposing forces. You've made things "easier" but n the same move you've launched social decay the likes of which is comparable to the middle ages, you've established a global economic system that create a large wealth gap and creates a small elite that basically rule the world, you can drive your car to make a three day journey in hours but in doing so you've marred the Earth and you've made obesity a social disease. Ease does not equal better or even good. This goes back to what I was saying before technology, science, and progress are neutral. An because we're lazy and selfish we use them for stupid evil purposes and even chain ourselves to a never ending denigrating cycle.
We will never cure cancer because its bad for business, when we invited away to power cars on water the man who did so was murdered and his research stolen, we produce enough food to end world hunger a few hundred times but in the name of profit we lock a lot of it up to rot, we are systematically destroying our planet, know it, and choose to do nothing but build ways to accelerate it. Tell me how this is better?

You're judging that your life is better and in short its not. Every one gets to live and do so in their own way. Every life is and experiment and has enormous value to your "progress". Its contradictory for you to judge him as not contributing. He's just as important as you.

Its not opinionated. Tell me the name of your great grandfather and what he did, tell me the name of his father and what he did, ect. You might find a mormon that knows and you might be able to go a few generations back if you looked really hard but right now you couldn't tell me and it doesn't matter cause they didn't do any thing important beyond procreate.
Yes if you did something on a Grand scale you'd be remembered somewhere by someone, to what degree we do not know. But as you admit, just as I assumed you'll do no such thing like countless millions today and billions that came before.

The cause are random. Your house falls down right now and kills you, a tree falls and kills you, someone runs a light and kills you, a meteor falls and kills you, someone bust in and shoots you. None of these are your choice, they are choice but they are other's choices or merely the result of events unrelated to you, up until you die. Most of the things that happen to you beyond the social world or direct choices you make in certain matter, and yes that leaves a lot to chance, are just random things. Just like class, right now all of America will tell you its middle class but in reality we have a large amount of poor, a shrinking middle class and a small upper class and people have no choice in that matter, even if you worked hard and went to school your relative ability to move up is small and not likely. The few success stories you hear are just that the few. I'm not saying there is destiny or that you can't change things but I am telling you a lot of pain and suffering is random, not an act of God.

[Eli]

You have no idea if progress will come. Tomorrow we could all die in some comic event or some idiot with a nuke could start a nuclear holocaust and with in a million years its likely humanity will parish, not flourish.
You expect progress because you see the "good" in humanity, but with every step forward we always take a few back. Your view point is that of the turn of the century right before WWII when the world believe one day science would solve all our problems, that technology and human ingenuity could give us all the answers because it was good. If WWII and events like it show any thing, technology, science, and progress are neutral. They can be agents of great good and evil and as the world will show you on a daily basis evil is far more often the driving force.

Easy does not equal better. These things are not mutually inclusive and often involve opposing forces. You've made things "easier" but n the same move you've launched social decay the likes of which is comparable to the middle ages, you've established a global economic system that create a large wealth gap and creates a small elite that basically rule the world, you can drive your car to make a three day journey in hours but in doing so you've marred the Earth and you've made obesity a social disease. Ease does not equal better or even good. This goes back to what I was saying before technology, science, and progress are neutral. An because we're lazy and selfish we use them for stupid evil purposes and even chain ourselves to a never ending denigrating cycle.
We will never cure cancer because its bad for business, when we invited away to power cars on water the man who did so was murdered and his research stolen, we produce enough food to end world hunger a few hundred times but in the name of profit we lock a lot of it up to rot, we are systematically destroying our planet, know it, and choose to do nothing but build ways to accelerate it. Tell me how this is better?

You're judging that your life is better and in short its not. Every one gets to live and do so in their own way. Every life is and experiment and has enormous value to your "progress". Its contradictory for you to judge him as not contributing. He's just as important as you.

Its not opinionated. Tell me the name of your great grandfather and what he did, tell me the name of his father and what he did, ect. You might find a mormon that knows and you might be able to go a few generations back if you looked really hard but right now you couldn't tell me and it doesn't matter cause they didn't do any thing important beyond procreate.
Yes if you did something on a Grand scale you'd be remembered somewhere by someone, to what degree we do not know. But as you admit, just as I assumed you'll do no such thing like countless millions today and billions that came before.

The cause are random. Your house falls down right now and kills you, a tree falls and kills you, someone runs a light and kills you, a meteor falls and kills you, someone bust in and shoots you. None of these are your choice, they are choice but they are other's choices or merely the result of events unrelated to you, up until you die. Most of the things that happen to you beyond the social world or direct choices you make in certain matter, and yes that leaves a lot to chance, are just random things. Just like class, right now all of America will tell you its middle class but in reality we have a large amount of poor, a shrinking middle class and a small upper class and people have no choice in that matter, even if you worked hard and went to school your relative ability to move up is small and not likely. The few success stories you hear are just that the few. I'm not saying there is destiny or that you can't change things but I am telling you a lot of pain and suffering is random, not an act of God.

While the world very well could end, that would mean the end of life as we know it.
All we can do is try and do as much as we can.
And for what you said about evil, you are right, opens doors for rebellion, war etc., as far as we know, it will probably be an endless cycle.
And during this endless cycle humans shall evolve and progress until the time of Armageddon comes.
I am not saying humans will become perfect nor am I saying that humans shall not die out, it's just that, chances are we won't.
We would need someone whom has the same mind-frame of the Joker to cause a nuclear holocaust, world leaders know better, or else they wouldn't be world leaders.
I am also not sitting here saying that every human needs to do something important, however there are the select few that do from every generation.

Like I said, we cannot expect for the likes of humans to realize what they are doing.
It may take a millennium before they do.
And might I also ask you, would rather be living during medieval times, or would you rather be here, in the United States today? Then tell me that life is not better.

And just might I say that this paragraph, we could go back and forth with.
To an extent I agree with you.
We would only need one heroin addict to experiment with his life, it would go bad, he would die, he would be important.
The many heroin addicts throughout the world that, in my opinion, are scum, should seek help, and then they would not be scum.
They would tell others their story, and offer that help to them, creating progression to less drug addicts.
It's just I'm a little biased when it comes to drugs, so I'd appreciate it if we could you know, just drop this portion of it D;

This wouldn't be a debate if it was opinionated.
And my great grandfather is still alive and moving today, 102 years old, and I constantly talk to him, he's told me about his father, and his grandfather.
I find old people cute, like I just wanna bounce em on my knee, lol.
And you are right, not many people know who their ancestors were, I feel bad for them, that's because they did nothing.
And it's not like I'm going to do nothing, when I am retired, I am going to open up a research lab that will search for a cure for cancer.
No guarantee that I will find one, however hope is something that can be argued.

Certain events are random, others are not.
Those that are smart enough, are America's elite.
Those that are not, are not meant to be there, otherwise they would be.

[C0FFINCASE]

While the world very well could end, that would mean the end of life as we know it.
All we can do is try and do as much as we can.
And for what you said about evil, you are right, opens doors for rebellion, war etc., as far as we know, it will probably be an endless cycle.
And during this endless cycle humans shall evolve and progress until the time of Armageddon comes.
I am not saying humans will become perfect nor am I saying that humans shall not die out, it's just that, chances are we won't.
We would need someone whom has the same mind-frame of the Joker to cause a nuclear holocaust, world leaders know better, or else they wouldn't be world leaders.
I am also not sitting here saying that every human needs to do something important, however there are the select few that do from every generation.

Like I said, we cannot expect for the likes of humans to realize what they are doing.
It may take a millennium before they do.
And might I also ask you, would rather be living during medieval times, or would you rather be here, in the United States today? Then tell me that life is not better.

And just might I say that this paragraph, we could go back and forth with.
To an extent I agree with you.
We would only need one heroin addict to experiment with his life, it would go bad, he would die, he would be important.
The many heroin addicts throughout the world that, in my opinion, are scum, should seek help, and then they would not be scum.
They would tell others their story, and offer that help to them, creating progression to less drug addicts.
It's just I'm a little biased when it comes to drugs, so I'd appreciate it if we could you know, just drop this portion of it D;

This wouldn't be a debate if it was opinionated.
And my great grandfather is still alive and moving today, 102 years old, and I constantly talk to him, he's told me about his father, and his grandfather.
I find old people cute, like I just wanna bounce em on my knee, lol.
And you are right, not many people know who their ancestors were, I feel bad for them, that's because they did nothing.
And it's not like I'm going to do nothing, when I am retired, I am going to open up a research lab that will search for a cure for cancer.
No guarantee that I will find one, however hope is something that can be argued.

Certain events are random, others are not.
Those that are smart enough, are America's elite.
Those that are not, are not meant to be there, otherwise they would be.

I'd rather have lived in any time prior to now. This were simpler, less artificial pressures and bullshit that hang the chains of slavery to us all. Everyone is chained to the will of the billionaires of the world now, at least once upon a time my will would have been my own and when it was not I'd have had the chance to fight. Now I couldn't fight even if I wanted to.

Ultimately you have a contradictory view of people and life. One one hand you declare that hope, continual improvement, and procreation are the point of life, but at the same time you pass judgments on lives that you fundamentally have no right to in the the context of your "meaning of life". If each life is an experiment in improving humanity then every life is valuable and you can't judge them. Your judgment of people on their knowledge of ancestry, like it means any thing is pointless. As if the knowledge of who and what your great grandfather did makes you better some how and it doesn't. There is no difference between you and anyone else. Everyone is equal in that sense and in that sense you, nor any one is special. Just as Earth and humanity is not significant in the scheme of the universe. The idea that people that are wealthy any where in the world are wealthy because its their "place/destine/ect" is idiotic. A lot of people that have the superior wealth in the world didn't do anything to deserve their wealth and a lot of the poor are stuck in the cycle regardless of how hard they work because they will never have any of the opportunities to get ahead because of how society is constructed to keep them poor and uneducated. Simply put, America is not as great as you think it is. A lot of people are forced to be poor and stay that way. A lot of rich people are handed their wealth and ways to get richer without doing anything. If you argue that that is their place/destiny then you can't even begin to say their is free will or choice in anything and if you say there is choice there can't be destiny.

Also as to evil and the needed mind frame. Humanity spawns monsters worse than that all the time. Zodiac or Son of Sam are two of hundreds of thousands examples of people with that mind frame and these people are extremely intelligent and are able to manipulate and control. Akmadenajad and the wacko in North Korea or Osama or any Hamas leader would willingly start WWWIII and bring a nuclear holocaust on us given the chance.

[Ego]

From a purely biological standpoint, our purpose here on this big blue planet is the same as any other organism's: to make more of ourselves. However, we have the (mis)fortune of cognitive thought, so we can't just settle for that. We have concepts like happiness that are almost completely foreign to other species that we try and pursue.

I don't have the foggiest idea what purpose we have on this planet other than reproduction. I guess it's up to us individually (hopefully) to determine what our life means.

[Supra]

I think from an existentialist point of view that we are here to create our own meaning to life. It isn't decided for us.