Dragons:did they exist? (kinda long but interesting)

Reality can not be altered. What is real is not up for debate. Only your perception of it can be altered. Your senses are lies. Every thing you see, hear, touch, taste and feel are a mental construct. There is no personal truth. There is truth/reality and your perception. However close your perception is to the truth improves your understanding of reality.
You're basically arguing that reality is individual and we know it is not, you're also suggesting that a consensus of belief alters reality and is does not.
its interesting that you quote Socrates and then start spouting non-constructionist arguments.

Also before you criticize Christians for the Inquisition its worth noting it only existed in Spain and was a tool of the crown to eradicate the Jewish and Muslim population which had previously taken over Spain. It was also a corrupt institution backed by a corrupt pope that should never have been appointed. Also if we're going to talk about oppressive religions: Islam-Be Muslim or we'll enslave and/or kill you. Judaism-Let's go over there and cut those kids' penises up and kill them cause God demands it.
They're all the same.

I firmly believe that reality can be altered by the individual mind; I believe we have a much greater impact on this world than we are aware of now.

Tell me, Coffin, if a tree falls in a forest and nobody's there to hear it: will there be sound?

I'd like to refer to the Schrödinger's Cat experiment; in it, the cat is both dead and alive, except if we force the conclusion.
In the trees' case, there will both be sound and silence. Does it matter what you call it? In this concept, it has the same value.
Death or alive; sound or silence, ... Reality or perception.

If senses are lies then thoughts are lies, thus your ideas are lies.
But it may very well be true too. You don't know, that's the problem.

I take it for granted that reality has no stable form and is an individual thing that can be controlled by belief.
Yet I also acknowledge I may know very little of this; me quoting Socrates is purely out of respect, not of smartness.

Go ahead and educate me; that's why you have all the knowledge, and I -as of now- don't. :]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The_Theomorphic_Librarian

I firmly believe that reality can be altered by the individual mind; I believe we have a much greater impact on this world than we are aware of now.

Tell me, Coffin, if a tree falls in a forest and nobody's there to hear it: will there be sound?

I'd like to refer to the Schrödinger's Cat experiment; in it, the cat is both dead and alive, except if we force the conclusion.
In the trees' case, there will both be sound and silence. Does it matter what you call it? In this concept, it has the same value.
Death or alive; sound or silence, ... Reality or perception.

If senses are lies then thoughts are lies, thus your ideas are lies.
But it may very well be true too. You don't know, that's the problem.

I take it for granted that reality has no stable form and is an individual thing that can be controlled by belief.
Yet I also acknowledge I may know very little of this; me quoting Socrates is purely out of respect, not of smartness.

Go ahead and educate me; that's why you have all the knowledge, and I -as of now- don't. :]

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Yes there is a sound. The tree fall, energy is released, the air vibrates and moves. Sound is not the sensation of you hearing something its the transfer of energy through the air.
Just as the cat can't be dead and alive. These are exclusive states and prevent each other from being applied at the same time.
Sense is not thought. Senses being lies and thoughts and ideas being lies are different. You can't prove your sense, you know for fact they can be tricked. Your thoughts flow from the consciousness. Cogito ergo sum~"I think there for I am". For you to think there must be a you, and if you are not a lie then other things must not be lies as well. Your ideas if based on lies and incorrect information are lies, but ideas based on logic and reality are true. To make the room you see around you you must know something of reality, you must know based on the way your faulty senses are acting in response to those surrounds a rough idea of what those surroundings are somewhat like.
I claim to know nothing of reality only that reality is truth. Only fools claim to know.
If your beliefs constitute reality then morals and laws can't be applied unilaterally and you have to let people murder, rape, steal, ect because they can argue in their reality they don't have those morals or laws. Also if you decide to believe that a magic unicorn lives in your closet, no matter how much you believe that there will be no magic unicorn in your closet and the men in white coats will come lock you away. The very reason we study things like math is because math represents truths of reality that allow us act with in reality. You can't build a house by believing you can build a house without having the knowledge to design and build the house. If any thing the universe is not a formless entity one can control but a giant mechanism governed by laws that we can only hope to learn so we might make use of them. That's not to say I'd argue that the universe and reality control us or that we can't with enough knowledge control that reality to some degree either.

@Coffin/ I think what the Librarian was trying to say was if there is no evidence/proof and you believe in it then it will become a reality(to you),for example. There are two people. One person believes in god the other doesn't. To the person who does believe in god, God is reality,to them. To the other person, god does not exist and has never existed. I think this is what he/she was trying to say but about dragons, and then he/she started to drift off to the topic of reality. But seriously both of you, you guys are off topic.

I understand exactly what they're saying but I'm arguing against it because I don't believe in personal reality. Just because you believe in god does mean god exist, no mater what you think. Things do not exist for one person and not for another in the real world.
Its not really your place to comment on discussion. Discussion evolves and the forum is dead otherwise any way so stfu.

You're quite possibly the sole person on these forums that reads and responds -constructively, without trolling nor flaming- to me. Thank you

So coffin what you're saying that all people with religion should just stop worshiping god since he does not exist?
I for one don't believe in god but you should still respect what someone else believes in.

I believe in God but what you and most people think is God is not what I call God.
I assert there is evidence of God but I'm not interested in discussing that here.
Also my point has nothing to do with respect of beliefs, its only making a point.

No .