Gaia Taking action on SOPA

[Jenni]

[Souleater]

I'm seriously getting annoyed with all of this self site censorship bullshit. We get it, for the love of big tits, sites need to stop being fucking stupid.

[C0FFINCASE]

I'm seriously getting annoyed with all of this self site censorship bullshit. We get it, for the love of big tits, sites need to stop being fucking stupid.

Actually they need to ramp it the fuck up. People don't get it and they need to be informed. The only way democracy works is if people are informed and active. An since people are not doing either action you have to make a really big deal about it to get them to even pay attention.
People don't know about SOPA and less know about PIPA. You and I know because we care and pay attention but its hardly a national issue because people are in the dark about it. Mostly because they don't understand jack about the internet or copyright law. Still its enough to get them on board when you explain that Facebook, Youtue, and Wiki are gone if this passes. I can go to jail for covering a song and posting it on LG, plus LG gets blacklisted because its responsible for user generated content. Kind of a big deal.
Your attitude towards this is what cause democracy to fail and why the US has the problems that it does. People stopped caring,stopped being informed, and stopped being active. Failing to be an engaged citizen is the worst crime against your country because the system fails if you don't remain active in it. It makes a military guarding boarders wortless if the people its protecting are destroying them from the inside.

In addition, the internet is the last true realm of free speech and thought. To censor the internet would diminish people's ability to be informed and thus undermine the democratic system.

[Jah]

Actually they need to ramp it the fuck up. People don't get it and they need to be informed. The only way democracy works is if people are informed and active. An since people are not doing either action you have to make a really big deal about it to get them to even pay attention.
People don't know about SOPA and less know about PIPA. You and I know because we care and pay attention but its hardly a national issue because people are in the dark about it. Mostly because they don't understand jack about the internet or copyright law. Still its enough to get them on board when you explain that Facebook, Youtue, and Wiki are gone if this passes. I can go to jail for covering a song and posting it on LG, plus LG gets blacklisted because its responcible for user generated content. Kind of a big deal.
Your attitude towards this is what cause democracy to fail and why the US has the problems that it does. People stopped caring,stopped bing informed, and stopped being active. Failing to be an engaged citizen is the worst crime against your country because the system failsif you don't remain active in it. It makes a military guarding boarderswortless if the people its protecting are destroying them from the inside.

You write too much, and I hate reading too much.

[La Vie Cruelle]

You write too much, and I hate reading too much.

tl;dr - souleater does not understand the severity of SOPA, and thinks it is a nuisance protest/joke; therefore, it's people like him that makes the US fucked up and unintelligent because of their inactivity within the country.

[C0FFINCASE]

You write too much, and I hate reading too much.

Let me break it down for you and your feeble mind then, god for bid you have to read any thing:
Democracy=only work if people are informed and active
--------------------------------
US=Democracy
Soul=Not care about his right
Soul= Bad citizen
-------------------------
France=Democracy
You=don't read things longer then ten words
You=Bad citizen
------------------------------------
Sopa=serious


Side note: We have these great things call book,they're like a whole bunch of pages with text on them and you read them to learn things. Might be helpful to you in the future if you pretend you know what they are. I won't ask you to read or look at any of them since simply viewing the table of contents would apparently kill you.

[CL0V3R]

Then again the majority of those preaching about SOPA don't always know what they're talking about.
I keep seeing a circle jerk of misinformation. Like if SOPA passes the whole internet is going down. (Some people really believe the internet is being shut off. I'm not even kidding you.)
On a side note I do oppose SOPA but I feel like there is a lot of fear mongering. Is there a possibility they will take down youtube? Yes. Is it for certain no. I wish people would be more honest about the situation. Instead of saying OMG EVERYTHING WILL GO DOWN, SOPA IS REMOVING EVERYTHING. We should correct ourselves in saying if SOPA passes there is a possibility if it pass they may take it down because of the way it was worded.

[Kain]

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[CL0V3R]

I think that comic pretty much sums up why I feel like 4chan is melodramatic.
The whole internet isn't just getting the plug pulled if SOPA passes.
It will just be an annoyingly major inconvenience. Also if the site is just blocked you can still access it via IP or through other means.

[C0FFINCASE]

Then again the majority of those preaching about SOPA don't always know what they're talking about.
I keep seeing a circle jerk of misinformation. Like if SOPA passes the whole internet is going down. (Some people really believe the internet is being shut off. I'm not even kidding you.)
On a side note I do oppose SOPA but I feel like there is a lot of fear mongering. Is there a possibility they will take down youtube? Yes. Is it for certain no. I wish people would be more honest about the situation. Instead of saying OMG EVERYTHING WILL GO DOWN, SOPA IS REMOVING EVERYTHING. We should correct ourselves in saying if SOPA passes there is a possibility if it pass they may take it down because of the way it was worded.

The anti-sopa people aren't disseminating false information. People are getting out of hand about it but they aren't either. SOPA and PIPA are loosely worded bill that has the intention of giving companies and people that hold copyrights the ability to blacklist any site hosting copyrighted material. So Clover draws a pokemon and posts it on LG, and Clover gets in trouble, LG, gets in trouble, photobucket gets in trouble, ect. The whole internet won't go down, but a site that has user generated content becomes a massive liability. Particularly youtube or grooveshark face the most trouble because a fan uploading a music video or even them playing or singing their favorite song technically violates both bill and its been suggested by the people that back the bills that they would use the bills in this way. An that is just a small part of whats in these bills. The other equally troubling part is that in theory people own their websites and can dowhat they want with their property, but now the government is going to decide to tell you want you can and can't do with your property and then take it from you if they decide you misuse it. Now technically speaking that's ok with the world as long as the site is hosted in the US, but if its host outside the US then the US is basically commiting an act of war. SOPA is going to say its ok for the US to blacklist sites regardless of where they're hosted and that's just no ok. Other countries will begin blocking US sites within their boards in responce, the result is rather than a worldwide web you end up with a US-wide web that doesn't conect to the UK web or China web, ect. The flow of information and ideas is restricted and free speech is underminded. You're looking a major change in the way the internet works with SOPA and PIPA. You're talking about turning the wild west into a video monitored office over night, so in a way it would be the end of the internet, at least as you've experience it thus far.

[CL0V3R]

The anti-sopa people aren't disseminating false information. People are getting out of hand about it but they aren't either. SOPA and PIPA are loosely worded bill that has the intention of giving companies and people that hold copyrights the ability to blacklist any site hosting copyrighted material. So Clover draws a pokemon and posts it on LG, and Clover gets in trouble, LG, gets in trouble, photobucket gets in trouble, ect. The whole internet won't go down, but a site that has user generated content becomes a massive liability. Particularly youtube or grooveshark face the most trouble because a fan uploading a music video or even them playing or singing their favorite song technically violates both bill and its been suggested by the people that back the bills that they would use the bills in this way. An that is just a small part of whats in these bills. The other equally troubling part is that in theory people own their websites and can dowhat they want with their property, but now the government is going to decide to tell you want you can and can't do with your property and then take it from you if they decide you misuse it. Now technically speaking that's ok with the world as long as the site is hosted in the US, but if its host outside the US then the US is basically commiting an act of war. SOPA is going to say its ok for the US to blacklist sites regardless of where they're hosted and that's just no ok. Other countries will begin blocking US sites within their boards in responce, the result is rather than a worldwide web you end up with a US-wide web that doesn't conect to the UK web or China web, ect. The flow of information and ideas is restricted and free speech is underminded. You're looking a major change in the way the internet works with SOPA and PIPA. You're talking about turning the wild west into a video monitored office over night, so in a way it would be the end of the internet, at least as you've experience it thus far.

Oh I understand, you're preaching to the choir. My only gripe is just how dramatic people are getting. They're not spreading misinformation in your opinion but when I see people who genuinely think the internet is just going down... I feel there is something wrong with the way the information is being presented. Also as I stated in another post, even if things get blocked you can still access things through a proxy/tor/vpn and IPs. It's annoying but people are acting like there never will be a way around it. Pirating is illegal but everyone still gets away with it. This bill won't change that, pirates are just going to find another way. That's why I think this bill is stupid. It's worded poorly and isn't going to change much (as far as pirating goes) other than maybe the way people pirate. All it's doing is inconveniencing everyone with no real way to succeed in the manner of which they want it to.

[C0FFINCASE]

Those are people not actual respected information outlets. If you just listen to people and do no research on your own, your an idiot to begin with but at the same time if one side doesn't use the sheep the other will so I'd rather have half the uniformed public thinking congress wants the internet turned off than them siding with congress.

For US sites: You're not going to see and indefinite blacklist where you can use a proxy to get to the site, you're going to see that for a period of time and then the site will go down if it does not remove the content and pay various fines. Its likely that most blacklisted site will never return or be accessible for but a short period of time.
For Non-US sites: You are correct because they won't be fined, only blocked.

Aside from that it opens the door for more regulation. SOPA/PIPA may not be full on censorship but this kicks that door open legally speaking. The argument to make it ok for the government to monitor what you say online and arrest you for it is palpable.
I agree this won't kill piracy at all, its likely to aid it from my understanding. The thing about SOPA and PIPA is I don't even care about the piracy stuff, because the bill are written as such that they don't affect it. The muck up other things, like the existance of LG. All the times we've had trouble with Gaia in the past, particuarly the last time, in a SOPA world Aleena and Arti go to jail, LG goes down, people that posted accounts go to jail, our host gets fine, ect. Its not pretty.(Clover you get this but I like examples and I like making people aware.)

[Jah]

I actually read the comic

[Souleater]

tl;dr - souleater does not understand the severity of SOPA, and thinks it is a nuisance protest/joke; therefore, it's people like him that makes the US fucked up and unintelligent because of their inactivity within the country.

Sadly no. I believe that the world relies too much on the internet for anything and everything that they have ever wanted and since the internet can provide anything to anybody at any moment, it causes us to not have trk to earn what we want. If everything is only a click away, no one has to take the initiative to do anything.

Bringing down a sanction on piracy will return a stimulus to the economy and stop lazy people who don't want trk for something have to actually put forth an attempt to make money to buy music or games or movies, or anything. Do I think the internet as a whole should be censored? No. Do I believe that things should be regulated on the internet? Yes. I don't care if your views are opposing to mine in the idea that you should be able to get everything you want.

And my views of the severity of SOPA are not as simple as stated. My views of the act are that people taking it too personally and not actually researching what it is all about in the first place. Do we all have ALL of the information on this thing? No, because only a gist is given out at press conferences of what it is all about, and most of the whole bill won't be made public and people will only read the synopsis on the front page instead of taking the time to find out what it really means.

People being ill informed is their own fault for not caring what is going on in their own country. My thoughts are not what makes the US unintelligent. Activity is a choice, and people that take the time to conduct themselves in the country and know what is going on is a lost thing with the weakness that the country has and its dependence on everything being handed to them. People don't have trk for shit any more or work and try to understand for themselves what is going on and why. This is the generation that will decide what happens in the next 20 years and the youth of this generation rely so much on the menial things in life like the fucking internet to be free or else it's a fucking injustice.

Soul=Not care about his right
Soul= Bad citizen

I do know and care about my rights, and that is why I understand the way things work within people who don't really value theirs. Our very ability to even use the internet is a privilege. The internet is a privilege to use, to have the entire world at a click of the button.

[Aleena]

SOPA & Censorship

To commemorate the Internet-wide protest against SOPA/PIPA, Gaia has been censored for the day, but we'll be back to normal tomorrow. Once censored, avatars cannot be uncensored, so think carefully about how much this legislation could affect you. To discuss SOPA/PIPA further, see this thread in the SOPA forum.

/thread, GTFO

Making a big fucking deal about one single day of censorship on gaia. Go kiss a pillow nerds.

[La Vie Cruelle]

And my views of the severity of SOPA are not as simple as you state Jenny.

I summed up Coffin's post. Do me a favor and quit blindly reading things, as you have proved very well to me.

[Souleater]

I summed up Coffin's post. Do me a favor and quit blindly reading things, as you have proved very well to me.

Disreguard your quoted section and take the rest of the post for what it is.

[C0FFINCASE]

Sadly no. I believe that the world relies too much on the internet for anything and everything that they have ever wanted and since the internet can provide anything to anybody at any moment, it causes us to not have trk to earn what we want. If everything is only a click away, no one has to take the initiative to do anything.

The world relies on the internet because the world, has progressed. If the internet went out tomorrow we could get on just fine. The fact we use a tool hasn't softened us. The point of a tool is proficiency. The reason man is where he is is because of tools. You are acting like the internet is this magic machine that gives you everything you want and no one ever does any thing. That's a flawed presumption on its face. Products and good still require money, people still go trk, people still make things, ect. You sound like one of those people that wants more manufacturing jobs in America. You know why that can't and shouldn't happen? The US is a Post-Industrial Nation. Our economy is made up of services, not good. The Us became a Post Industrial nation because of technological advances, because it constantly makes break through in math, science, engineering, ect. It does it every day. The fact other countries managed to get in the game isn't a sign we're losing our edge. Its due to progress. Progress is made, progress endures and marches forward, never back. An as much as that might scare you shitless Soul, its a good thing. The internet isn't some cure all, its a tool. Society hasn't used it to become lazy, society was lazy to start with. The power that the internet brings is knowledge. You still must learn that knowledge. learning requires effort, searching requieres effort, having the money to buy things requires effort.

Bringing down a sanction on piracy will return a stimulus to the economy and stop lazy people who don't want trk for something have to actually put forth an attempt to make money to buy music or games or movies, or anything. Do I think the internet as a whole should be censored? No. Do I believe that things should be regulated on the internet? Yes. I don't care if your views are opposing to mine in the idea that you should be able to get everything you want.

You will see no recovery for the economy, even if SOPA stopped or slowed piracy, which it won't, the effect of piracy are minimal. The revenue lost is negligible. he problems the entertainment industry are facing have next to nothing to do with piracy. The problems they face have to do with the fact they have fallen behind, their marketing methods have become obsolete. The only thing SOPA has to do with piracy is the fact they stuck it in the name. The issue at hand has nothing to do with some grant socialist agenda to allow people to get something for nothing. Its about free speech and general use. SOPA can be used to control the flow of information. Information and the right to free speech is important and should be protected.

And my views of the severity of SOPA are not as simple as stated. My views of the act are that people taking it too personally and not actually researching what it is all about in the first place. Do we all have ALL of the information on this thing? No, because only a gist is given out at press conferences of what it is all about, and most of the whole bill won't be made public and people will only read the synopsis on the front page instead of taking the time to find out what it really means.

We absolutely have all the information on SOPA and PIPA. Guess why? Congress is open to the public, as are most of the records. Guess what they do every god damned day. Publish what they did that day, along with bills and resolutions that are to be debated. Government is actually pretty open. I've read SOPA and PIPA, in the entirety. You want to check it out? Bill Text - 112th Congress (2011-2012) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

People being ill informed is their own fault for not caring what is going on in their own country. My thoughts are not what makes the US unintelligent. Activity is a choice, and people that take the time to conduct themselves in the country and know what is going on is a lost thing with the weakness that the country has and its dependence on everything being handed to them. People don't have trk for shit any more or work and try to understand for themselves what is going on and why. This is the generation that will decide what happens in the next 20 years and the youth of this generation rely so much on the menial things in life like the fucking internet to be free or else it's a fucking injustice.

You're trying to blame the internet for a trend that has existed since the late 50s. We didn't have the internet then and its not causing it now. The decay of civil society has a lot more to do with education and our disengagement with our system and one another. If any thing the internet fosters discussion and education that bring people back together, allows them to engage in debate, build opinions. LG is an excellent example of what is called a civil society organization. It gathers people together to have a discourse, to exchange ideas, debate, and even at times vote. These type of organizations are essential to a democracy. These kind of things used to be represented in every thing from bowling leagues to county commissions, now they typically exist only on the internet.

I do know and care about my rights, and that is why I understand the way things work within people who don't really value theirs. Our very ability to even use the internet is a privilege. The internet is a privilege to use, to have the entire world at a click of the button.

The internet is not a privilege, nor is it a right. The internet is nothing but a tool to communicate and organize. As such it is a method of speech and I have a right to unlimited, unregulated speech. It allows me to organize with others, I have a right to assembly. Te internet is made up entirely of private property and while I do not own a stake in the thing call internet others do and they let me see and use their property, and regardless of that they have a right to that property and to use it however they so choose.

[Souleater]

The world relies on the internet because the world, has progressed. If the internet went out tomorrow we could get on just fine. The fact we use a tool hasn't softened us. The point of a tool is proficiency. The reason man is where he is is because of tools. You are acting like the internet is this magic machine that gives you everything you want and no one ever does any thing. That's a flawed presumption on its face. Products and good still require money, people still go trk, people still make things, ect. You sound like one of those people that wants more manufacturing jobs in America. You know why that can't and shouldn't happen? The US is a Post-Industrial Nation. Our economy is made up of services, not good. The Us became a Post Industrial nation because of technological advances, because it constantly makes break through in math, science, engineering, ect. It does it every day. The fact other countries managed to get in the game isn't a sign we're losing our edge. Its due to progress. Progress is made, progress endures and marches forward, never back. An as much as that might scare you shitless Soul, its a good thing. The internet isn't some cure all, its a tool. Society hasn't used it to become lazy, society was lazy to start with. The power that the internet brings is knowledge. You still must learn that knowledge. learning requires effort, searching requieres effort, having the money to buy things requires effort.

The use of tools like the internet stops people from putting money into the economy. When you don't push out money on goods and products, you fuck the economy. You download songs, movies and games for free, retailers lose money and stocks in those companies go down if that section of their income isn't replaced with other sections like food goods and manufactured goods. And as far as effort in things go, people do put forth effort, but the amount of effort is nothing compared to what it used to be. Now all you have to do is sift through the shit in the internet which takes no time at all, and you feel no accomplishment. To search for your knowledge in a book and find it is a great thing and the feeling is amazing. To find something on the internet after 10 minutes takes away the feeling when you look so hard for something and how it makes you feel.

I have nothing against other countries making advancements either. I believe that advancements, no matter what country makes them as long as it is for the good of humanity, is an amazing thing. Because every advancement can be amazing if utilized the right way, but if it is utilized the wrong way, its a damaging thing.

I'm not an industrialist at all, that world is gone and has been for many decades, I view jobs in the country as being fucked by people who take all their jobs and outsource them to countries like India and Pakistan and other countries like that because they can't afford to pay the people in America

You will see no recovery for the economy, even if SOPA stopped or slowed piracy, which it won't, the effect of piracy are minimal. The revenue lost is negligible. he problems the entertainment industry are facing have next to nothing to do with piracy. The problems they face have to do with the fact they have fallen behind, their marketing methods have become obsolete. The only thing SOPA has to do with piracy is the fact they stuck it in the name. The issue at hand has nothing to do with some grant socialist agenda to allow people to get something for nothing. Its about free speech and general use. SOPA can be used to control the flow of information. Information and the right to free speech is important and should be protected.

This is true, the right to free speech is one of the most important things to a person in this country, but the fact is rights of the people end when they infringe on the rights of others. And even though every person has rights to basically cast anything they want into the wide ocean of shit that is the internet, once that crap effects a person negatively and impacts their lives, rights go out the window, and that's just the way it is. I don't agree with censorship of free speech and the right to information, but the point that I am making is that rights are always going to be protected. Until someone else has their rights effected negatively.

You're trying to blame the internet for a trend that has existed since the late 50s. We didn't have the internet then and its not causing it now. The decay of civil society has a lot more to do with education and our disengagement with our system and one another. If any thing the internet fosters discussion and education that bring people back together, allows them to engage in debate, build opinions. LG is an excellent example of what is called a civil society organization. It gathers people together to have a discourse, to exchange ideas, debate, and even at times vote. These type of organizations are essential to a democracy. These kind of things used to be represented in every thing from bowling leagues to county commissions, now they typically exist only on the internet.

The internet fosters conversation, this is true, but the fact of the matter is that it can cause disconnect from people in the real world. More people use the internet to talk to people than to actually go out and talk to the people they want to. Do you meet more people? Yes. But for the most part they are no where near you, and it pigeon-holes you into a single group and creates separation in society and doesn't foster different "cliques" mingling as you never are really being forced to. When two groups of people from massively different backgrounds and interests clash, it creates conversation, and fosters bringing together people better than being with people who love the same things you do and have retarded conversations like we do non-stop in (this is a rarity to have text walls anymore)the JY, who you most likely will never meet, then to try and make some friends you can spend time with in real life. So the internet may not have been the cause of social deterioration but it is definitely a major catalyst that is speeding the damage and making it worse than it could be. And a bowling league, any county commissions, and any group that needs to use the internet to have a meeting when they are most likely all within driving distance of some place they can all meet in person are all just lazy and don't want to take the initiative to go out and actually be with people that they easily can. Whatever happened to just driving or even walking a few miles to talk to people about something important? The ease and reliance on technology for even the simplest things are a weakness.

The internet is not a privilege, nor is it a right. The internet is nothing but a tool to communicate and organize. As such it is a method of speech and I have a right to unlimited, unregulated speech. It allows me to organize with others, I have a right to assembly. Te internet is made up entirely of private property and while I do not own a stake in the thing call internet others do and they let me see and use their property, and regardless of that they have a right to that property and to use it however they so choose.

How is it not a privilege? It is the epitome of privilege. The very use of the internet is something that is granted, and the last time I checked the definition of a privilege is: a right or immunity granted as a peculiar benefit, advantage, or favor. The internet is a benefit/advantage/tool. Yes that is true, however the statement that you have the right to do whatever you want with a hypothetical claim in the internet is false. Your rights are valid as long as they do not infringe on the rights of others ( Where Your Rights End & Mine Begin - Big Government ). And the internet, although it is not owned by any specific person and a place of community may be owned by a provider or a specific person, the second that right of assembly infringes on the rights of any person, the rights of that group are nulled. And protection of a binding copy-write on material that may be displayed is what the goal is, not to censor the internet. Once a site displays material that has been copy-written without consent is abusing of the material. Who needs a trillion downloads for a single song. If the company wants to put it on the internet and charge a few bucks to download it, then it will make finding specific things much easier, and you won't get redirected a billion fucking times to spam, and false downloads and deleted files.

[CL0V3R]

I'm really enjoying the debating in this thread.
I'm just going to leave this to the professionals.

[Drakonid]

This thread is too long to be read on mobile, so I'll wait till tomorrow to do it, in the meantime, and only because this is in they JY:
HAHA, suckers, you're getting all your shit censored.

[C0FFINCASE]

The use of tools like the internet stops people from putting money into the economy. When you don't push out money on goods and products, you fuck the economy. You download songs, movies and games for free, retailers lose money and stocks in those companies go down if that section of their income isn't replaced with other sections like food goods and manufactured goods. And as far as effort in things go, people do put forth effort, but the amount of effort is nothing compared to what it used to be. Now all you have to do is sift through the shit in the internet which takes no time at all, and you feel no accomplishment. To search for your knowledge in a book and find it is a great thing and the feeling is amazing. To find something on the internet after 10 minutes takes away the feeling when you look so hard for something and how it makes you feel.

That's just not true. Service is a good, we're in an economy that is centralized on services and knowledge. That's what generates the real money in our economy. Piracy simply isn't as big of a drain on the economy as people want to pretend it is. There is real crime going on that is far more draining to the economy. Fraud, criminal organizations, drugs, ect. Data has shown this to be true. I'm not defending piracy, the goal of regulation is noble, this is just not the way to do it.
Obviously you don't get the point of a tool. The point of a tool is to maximize work and reduce effort. Are you going to argue that because a shovel reduces the amount of work required to dig a hole?
The fact is all of the information in the world isn't on the web. We still read books. Even with the internet, research is gratifying. I've had to do massive amounts of research using the internet and books. Both are equally gratifying. Aside from that if the obtaining of information were simply the learning or researching that would be one thing. Its not, one has to digest and assimilate the information. Then form opinions or arguments based on it. You've only reduced the time needed to compile information. Arguably, you haven't even reduced the time, only increased the volume available to someone.
The internet is the driving force of the global economy and it does its job on a scale never thought possible. Its nt a drain on the economy, its most likely the only thing holding it together.
International business is done at a speed and on a scale that baffles the weak minded. Disney gets to operate across the globe an rack in money in outragous volumes. Yes, without regulation Aladin might get pirated a few hundred times but the gain vs cost is so skewed that any one that can count would take the current model over the one the existed prior.

I have nothing against other countries making advancements either. I believe that advancements, no matter what country makes them as long as it is for the good of humanity, is an amazing thing. Because every advancement can be amazing if utilized the right way, but if it is utilized the wrong way, its a damaging thing.

Technology is morally neutral. Use is negative and can't be regulated. Our understandings of physics, chemistry, and metallurgy created the fire arms, missiles, ect. Arguably those or terrible uses of those sciences. You don't get to control the march or progress. Should advancement not be made for fear of misuse? No. Frankly you've formed an opinion on that views all technology that eases the life of people is wrong. The only other people that share that view are the Amish. The fact is people haven't become weak from technology, they have become stronger for it. We can do more, learn more than ever before and do it faster than any one ever imagined. That's not a bad thing.

I'm not an industrialist at all, that world is gone and has been for many decades, I view jobs in the country as being fucked by people who take all their jobs and outsource them to countries like India and Pakistan and other countries like that because they can't afford to pay the people in America

Are you sure? Because you just used their argument. We're outsourcing industrial jobs. We're not losing any thing in this. Its not that people can't afford to pay people in the US, its that what you have to pay someone in the US for the job is not plausible for the job. On top if this, no one in America wants to do the job. Jobs in this country are advanced. We became a post-industrial nation, unfortunately that means unskilled labor is now near non-existent in the US. There are construction works, public servants, janitors, ect. But that type of work just doesn't exist in the quantity that it would in an industrial nation. We've moved on, that's all there is to it. That's not the internet fault, that's the fault of progress and progress is not a bad thing.

This is true, the right to free speech is one of the most important things to a person in this country, but the fact is rights of the people end when they infringe on the rights of others. And even though every person has rights to basically cast anything they want into the wide ocean of shit that is the internet, once that crap affects a person negatively and impacts their lives, rights go out the window, and that's just the way it is. I don't agree with censorship of free speech and the right to information, but the point that I am making is that rights are always going to be protected. Until someone else has their rights effected negatively.

No one is negatively effecting anyone's rights via fair use. If John Stewart can throw up a meme that uses a picture of Mickey Mouse with some text on tv, why should it be different on the internet? Simply put fair use is established and legal, SOPA makes it illegal on the internet. Something like quoting a movie as a method of expression becomes illegal. Does that sound right? No. Piracy is wrong, SOPA is just an ill-advised attempt to regulate something that none of the people attempting the regulation understand. If any of the congressional hearings I'd watched had a single expert come speak I might be on board but they often admit they don't understand what they're talking about, that they should have some experts come talk, then don't do any research and write up a law based on the desires of Hollywood.
SOPA ends forums and other user generated content sites because it holds those sites responsible for the action of the users. SOPA closes places of free speech and prevents methods or expression.

The internet fosters conversation, this is true, but the fact of the matter is that it can cause disconnect from people in the real world. More people use the internet to talk to people than to actually go out and talk to the people they want to. Do you meet more people? Yes. But for the most part they are no where near you, and it pigeon-holes you into a single group and creates separation in society and doesn't foster different "cliques" mingling as you never are really being forced to. When two groups of people from massively different backgrounds and interests clash, it creates conversation, and fosters bringing together people better than being with people who love the same things you do and have retarded conversations like we do non-stop in (this is a rarity to have text walls anymore)the JY, who you most likely will never meet, then to try and make some friends you can spend time with in real life. So the internet may not have been the cause of social deterioration but it is definitely a major catalyst that is speeding the damage and making it worse than it could be. And a bowling league, any county commissions, and any group that needs to use the internet to have a meeting when they are most likely all within driving distance of some place they can all meet in person are all just lazy and don't want to take the initiative to go out and actually be with people that they easily can. Whatever happened to just driving or even walking a few miles to talk to people about something important? The ease and reliance on technology for even the simplest things are a weakness.

What percentage of people lose hold of reality n favor o the internet? It can't be more than .009% of the world's population. The internet lets me argue with someone on the otherside of the world, promotes the exchange of ideas ect.
Unfortunately the idea of driving a few miles to meet someone is common, its more than common. Its daily for so many people. Its called going to school, clubs, groups, organizations, business meetings, ect. People fly across the nation every day for that reason, people fly across the world to meet and talk. They aid their communication via the internet. You can make a deal with someone in Tokyo and thus have a reason to meet them, you can invest in Chinese stock, ect. The discussion provided by the internet provides an equal number of reason get outside and talk to people as much as it might hold you inside. You're basing your opinion out of your experiences and observations. The professional world use the internet in a way you don't seem to be aware of and they use it more or as much as the teenager in his room.
Next you missed my comment on bowling leagues, county commissions, ect. These groups don't use the internet and began disappearing in the 1950s as people become disengaged with each other. The decline of these organizations is called the decay of civil society. Civil society is the technical term for what your worried about and its just been happening for a long time and has to do with social trends, failed education, ect. The internet hasn't ramped that up, it just reflects the trend.
There isn't a reliance on technology, there is a use of them. The world can function without them. It seems that they are relied on because they have become culturally ingrained.
*

How is it not a privilege? It is the epitome of privilege. The very use of the internet is something that is granted, and the last time I checked the definition of a privilege is: a right or immunity granted as a peculiar benefit, advantage, or favor. The internet is a benefit/advantage/tool. Yes that is true, however the statement that you have the right to do whatever you want with a hypothetical claim in the internet is false. Your rights are valid as long as they do not infringe on the rights of others ( Where Your Rights End & Mine Begin - Big Government ). And the internet, although it is not owned by any specific person and a place of community may be owned by a provider or a specific person, the second that right of assembly infringes on the rights of any person, the rights of that group are nulled. And protection of a binding copy-write on material that may be displayed is what the goal is, not to censor the internet. Once a site displays material that has been copy-written without consent is abusing of the material. Who needs a trillion downloads for a single song. If the company wants to put it on the internet and charge a few bucks to download it, then it will make finding specific things much easier, and you won't get redirected a billion fucking times to spam, and false downloads and deleted files.

You've misunderstood the reality of SOPA. Its not just blocking an illegal download site for a song, its blocking all copyrighted material in violations of fair use. You like Robot Chicken or Family guy, SOPA makes that kind of parody illegal on the internet. SOPA makes this:


illegal. LG gets blacklisted, fined, and I go to jail. That is SOPA, that's not piracy, that's not limiting the spam, ect. As I've said, the goal of regulation is noble, this current set of bills are just not a good method and are a violation of rights.

On top of that, based on the bill of rights the guaranteed rights are unlimited. They do not infringe on anyone else by their definitions. The fact is that free speech and discussion can and should involve drawing on the entire wealth of human knowledge. SOPA makes that impossible because if I quote some copyrighted line we all go to jail.

I've typed and formulated this during class os if I've made a mistake or ignored something let me know

[CL0V3R]

What percentage of people lose hold of reality n favor o the internet? It can't be more than .009% of the world's population. The internet lets me argue with someone on the otherside of the world, promotes the exchange of ideas ect.
Unfortunately the idea of driving a few miles to meet someone is common, its more than common. Its daily for so many people. Its called going to school, clubs, groups, organizations, business meetings, ect. People fly across the nation every day for that reason, people fly across the world to meet and talk. They aid their communication via the internet. You can make a deal with someone in Tokyo and thus have a reason to meet them, you can invest in Chinese stock, ect. The discussion provided by the internet provides an equal number of reason get outside and talk to people as much as it might hold you inside. You're basing your opinion out of your experiences and observations. The professional world use the internet in a way you don't seem to be aware of and they use it more or as much as the teenager in his room.
Next you missed my comment on bowling leagues, county commissions, ect. These groups don't use the internet and began disappearing in the 1950s as people become disengaged with each other. The decline of these organizations is called the decay of civil society. Civil society is the technical term for what your worried about and its just been happening for a long time and has to do with social trends, failed education, ect. The internet hasn't ramped that up, it just reflects the trend.
There isn't a reliance on technology, there is a use of them. The world can function without them. It seems that they are relied on because they have become culturally ingrained.

The following post has nothing to do with SOPA, it's only addressing the quote above:

I'm going to play the devil's advocate here, since I always seem to anyways.
I just wanted to point out that about 5% - 10% of people have a dependency on the internet to the point where it's negatively interfering with their lives. I.E can't live with out it to a ridiculous extent due to some subconscious addiction. There is still some debate on what actually categorizes an "addiction".
Here is about a good 20 different statistics on the subject. Internet Addiction Statistics - Facts, Figures, & Numbers -
Also just direct quote for arguments sake:

18% of British students were considered to be pathological internet users, whose excessive use of the internet was causing academic, social, and interpersonal problems. Students addicted to the internet were found to have lower self-esteem than other students.
Niemz et al., 2005

Here is a pretty in depth paper about how internet usage effects the amount of face-to-face contact in a family.
Global Media Journal

A direct study on how internet addiction actually changes the structure of your brain:

Scientists have found that compulsive internet use can produce morphological changes in the structure of the brain.[24] A study which analyzed Chinese college students who had been classified as computer addicts by the study designers and who used a computer around 10 hours a day, 6 days a week, found reductions in the sizes of the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex, rostral anterior cingulate cortex, supplementary motor area and parts of the cerebellum compared to students deemed "not addicted" by the designers.[24] On the other hand, increases in the density of the right parahippocampal gyrus and a spot called the left posterior limb of the internal capsule were also found.[24] It has been theorized that these changes reflect learning-type cognitive optimizations for using computers more efficiently, but also impaired short-term memory and decision-making abilities—including ones in which may contribute to the desire to stay online instead of be in the real world.

Another thing I'd like to add:

Cyberslacking has become a serious drain on corporate resources; the average UK employee spends 57 minutes a day surfing the Web at work, according to a study by Peninsula Business Services.

There are negative effects of the internet on interpersonal relationships. You can't say that there isn't. Even if it's not as cut and dry as statistics make it out to be.

There is a lot we miss out on socially when we take into account that only 7% of communication is through words. 55% percent of communication is based on body language and the other 38% is vocal (pitch, tone, volume, ect.) Body Language: A Key to Success in the Workplace - Yahoo! Finance Unless you're using a web cam and microphone you're losing that human "touch".

That's why over time some people decide to disassociate the idea text equals a real person. (4chan might be a good example haha) For people who only communicate through the internet, lack of real human interaction can be damaging to their social abilities. The internet does not teach you how to socially interact with others, it only teaches you how to convey messages through text. Texts becomes only little letters on a screen, that when you stare at them long enough, lose their meaning.

I think you greatly under estimate the amount of people who rely on the internet as their only form of communication. The withdraw of human contact effects those who've already have disposition to be shy or socially awkward. Instead of learning how to deal with the inconvenience of being shy or awkward they tend to latch on the internet as their only form of connection or communication. The internet really is a crutch for some people and that cannot be argued.

There are personal relationships that do fall apart because of one person's dedication to the internet and not their friends or family.

I'm not saying the internet is purely at fault, however I will the internet is a catalyst for such social problems developing.

For those who can use the internet responsibly great, for those who can't my post still stands.

[C0FFINCASE]

There are definitely people with internet problems. I don't feel the internet is their problem. I think they have a problem to begin with. Addiction(non-chemical) is largely mental and revolves around the individual not the addiction. 5-10% of people is negligible to me in the context of a cultural/societal debate.I'm not willing to limit 90% of people from using x because 10% of people are unqualified to. We don't do that with any thing. We have a drinking age but that's not exactly a direct compairison, a better one is that if we had a way to test for proneness to becoming an alcholic and then limited people prone to alcholism from drink. We don't. Personal responcibility comes into play for me in this situation. The internet is technology. Technology is niether good nor bad. How you use it determines its effects. If you can't manage your time or use correctly, that is your problem. I'm not saying there should be help for someone, I'm saying that its not the goverments job to make sure you don't negatively affect yourself, that's your job.
I'm far from advocating that the internet is this absolute good and that all communication should happen through it. I'm arguing that it is a major communication tool as well as a forum of free speech that is privately owned and that its nature and essence need to be protectedbecause its good outweight its bad. There are people that have fucked themselves up via internet usage but there are people that fuck themselves up on drugs, alchol, comic books, video games, ect but its non one's job to take care of them, they have to do that themselves, if they fal that's just life. The most meaningful method of communication is face to face(I refuse to have any sort of important conversation via text based communication, if I could have the whole of LG in a roon with me I'd have made it happen, but it can't be done so thisis the best method for communicating with you and Soul, just as skype call or an email is the best way to manage your business in Japan while you're running the home branch in the UK, ect). But if we limited ourselves to face to face communication we'd still be in the dark ages, printed text was the scariest thing in the world to goverments, now digital text is. It allows information to be transmitted instantly. Ideas destroy nation and knowledge makes all men equal. This is why I belive the internet is invaluible in its current state. yes, 7/10 times we talk about My Little Pony but look at this thread, this is huge. This can change a life, the ideas and discussion here have the ability to make the world move. Look at the Arab Spring, look at the French Revolution. They are the same, they both correspond to an advance in information technology and a new mthod of communication. The internet use in the Arab Spring and the print use and iscussion that startedhe FrenchRevolution were illegal under goverment censorship and monitoring. Here, now we have an unregulated and free way to communicate and express ideas and that is important. In a land of freedom, of rights,and enlightenment it seems like a crime to prevent expression in any shape or form because some people can't control themselves or because some small group abuses theis tool.
Even the slacking employee thing seems like bullshit to me. I worked in retail several timesand I easily slacked 55 minutes a day without a computer, just case a person is slacking via the internet doesn't mean that without it they wouldn't slack any way. Work ethic is tied up in personality, not internet usage habits, the latter most likely repreents the former well.

tltr;
Internet doesn't make you lazy or messed up, you're lazy or messed up to begin with. If you weren't usng the internet , it'd be something else(drugs, tv,ect).