Time Travel

Time Travel, the possible savior to millions of innocent lives or even of altering the future in a way that would benefit all of the human race is a very possible thing. However the methods of the way it is achieved are different and analogous with the way that space travel, in a way that would make space travel achievable over exponentially long distances.

In theory the methods of time travel are rather broad. The theory of the use of worm holes in travel in space would be the most possible way, if being able to actually dialate and hold the worm hole in a stable condition long enough to pass through it without it closing and destroying everything attempting to pass through, it would allow for the moving through time at a great sped, and in a way that a given time would be able to be focused and able to arrive in. The worm hole theory is second to the Fermi Paradoc, the Grandfather Paradox, the existance and interconnection of the 10 Dimensions, Realitivity and Einstien's theory of travel and speed ceilings, and the Novikov self-consitancy and and compliancy theories, Gordel Spacetime, and Basic and advanced theory on Quanta.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...a/af/Worm3.jpg

Now, if you in theory were able to travel to the past, any actions could impact the future in a massive way Any level of interferrence in the past could result in the unmaking of the future, and creation of an alternate timeline in which nothing is as it should be. Think that one episode of Family Guy where Peter alters his past and ends up being married to Molly Ringwald, same principal.

Bring discussion to bring together the conversation , and allow for some decent in-depth one for a change.

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Originally Posted by ~Souleater~

Now, if you in theory were able to travel to the past, any actions could impact the future in a massive way Any level of interferrence in the past could result in the unmaking of the future, and creation of an alternate timeline in which nothing is as it should be. Think that one episode of Family Guy where Peter alters his past and ends up being married to Molly Ringwald, same principal.

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Unless you believe in some outlandish theories that nullify the effects of paradoxes.

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Originally Posted by Artificial

Unless you believe in some outlandish theories that nullify the effects of paradoxes.

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The idea that changing the past actually prevents the changing of the past.

If you go back in time and alter anything that leads to the point in which you actually would go back in time then in fact you never will go back in time. meaning nothing ever changed.

YouTube - Time travel with proof
It's a video of a man who supposedly time traveled and saw himself as a 70 year old man. He captured the moment with his cell phone.

Time traveling would be much too risky. Even if time traveling were made possible somehow, there would be no way it would be allowed. The consequences would be way too drastic as it would change the fabric of time.
We then would enter an alternate universe.
According to a couple of scientists, there are an infinite number of universes.

Example:
Imagine we are on Universe 1 and we are just focusing on one person.
That one person smokes for various problems. This is Universe 1.
Now, if that person didn't have those problems, then he wouldn't smoke. Therefore we would be in a different universe in which that person doesn't smoke. We would be in an alternate universe.
This can be applied to anyone and everyone.
Therefore, alternate universes are being made every single day.

It's wayyy too dangerous...
Like... stepping on a baby plant that could one day be a huge tree would kill it... one step changes something huge....

Traveling is far too dangerous for humans.
Also not something we can do, the only way we could attempt to is a black hole or worm hole. An going into those will kill you. Stretch you into a singular state, instant death. The only reason this results in travel is that time is punctured by a black hole, where kind of unsude what happens in a worm hole but we do know at least that it would dump you out over a distance, but we're unsure about time.
You could also in theory exceed the speed of light. Problem with all of these is control, no clue where you end up or how to get back.
We also know that paradoxes are abhorred by nature and removed instantly, i.e. quantum level is measured and you change results.
We could bend time for a jump I suppose, but that hardly counts as time travel in my opinion.
Traveling to the future wouldn't work as well as you seem to think. For the simple fact its lack of existence prevents you from going there. Also you're assume speed of light travel will cause time travel, which there isn't any reason to.

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Originally Posted by C0FFINCASE

Traveling is far too dangerous for humans.
Also not something we can do, the only way we could attempt to is a black hole or worm hole. An going into those will kill you. Stretch you into a singular state, instant death.

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Time travel to a future time is possible.

The only issue would be the fact that there would be no reality until the past reached you.


Look up the theories of going faster than the speed of light.

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Originally Posted by Artificial

Unless you believe in some outlandish theories that nullify the effects of paradoxes.

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Care to share with us ALex?

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Originally Posted by Chris

The idea that changing the past actually prevents the changing of the past.

If you go back in time and alter anything that leads to the point in which you actually would go back in time then in fact you never will go back in time. meaning nothing ever changed.

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THat would just be a simple paradox in which the time at which you traveled back never happened, but in theory since almost everything that has happened is set, it would still happen, just at a different point in time for a different reason under different circumstances. It would still happen but you would just change the circumstance and how and when it woiuld take place.


But if you were to go aback and drastically alter the current and leading time line, then there is thesight possibility that it would never take place at all, think Back to the Future, where Marty gets back to the "present" day but everything changed, but he had all of the memories, the change would have to be exponentially more drastic then a buying a sports book to make money and end up putting the world into the hands of Buck to undo the entire time line and stop the eintire line events that lead up to his original time travel to the 196o's which would undo his time line. Its all in theory, but its terriblyround-about paradoxa ridden.

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Originally Posted by Chris

Time travel to a future time is possible.

The only issue would be the fact that there would be no reality until the past reached you.


Look up the theories of going faster than the speed of light.

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That would be theories of Special Relativity, not the theories of General Relativity that were originally proposed that the 300-some-odd-thousand meters/s, which would allow for the travel in the first place.

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Originally Posted by ~Souleater~

Care to share with us ALex?

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Higher dimensional theories. String theory puts forward around 11-12 dimensions, and there is even such a thing as the Theory of Infinite Dimensions. This could explain time travel in the sense that, by going back in time and changing it, you're not actually creating a paradox in the timeline you came from, but are enabling an event in another timeline to correctly occur.

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Originally Posted by Artificial

Higher dimensional theories. String theory puts forward around 11-12 dimensions, and there is even such a thing as the Theory of Infinite Dimensions. This could explain time travel in the sense that, by going back in time and changing it, you're not actually creating a paradox in the timeline you came from, but are enabling an event in another timeline to correctly occur.

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Altogether possible. Theories of an infinitismal sequence of possible time lines and dimensional conversions is more than possible and logical, but the theories of String Dimensions are complex and just seem to have too many mitigating factors to be able to flex right. Because if you think in the theory that you are enabling a single possible dimension and time line, then you negate the infinite amount of time lines in exchange for the activation of that singular time line and the transference of the base time line to the secondary one that you created. That would mean that only those two time lines exist and only 2 time lines can exist at the same time, that are able to be experienced, while any number of other dimensions are experiencing 2 dimensions as well. There is an infinite amount in that aspect, but there would be no point of cross for the dimensions to be crossed correctly, and therefore a secondary time line.

I'm also just running off of some secondary sources and the Futurama portrail of String Dimensions.

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Originally Posted by C0FFINCASE

Traveling is far too dangerous for humans. An going into those will kill you. Stretch you into a singular state, instant death.

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I don't think this aspect of time travel should be discussed. The energy needed to create a wormhole required for time travel is unfeasable. Better to think of it as a thought experiment, to theoretically determine if it's possible and the outcomes that would occur should it be accomplished.

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Originally Posted by C0FFINCASE

You could also in theory exceed the speed of light. Problem with all of these is control, no clue where you end up or how to get back.

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Did I miss something in physics? Exceeding the speed of light, can you explain the reasoning behind your statement a little bit? I have heard some physicists argue that when near a black hole, relative to an observer far away from the hole you could appear to be traveling FTL, and relative to them you may go back in time, but I think 99.9% of physicists will agree that traveling faster than the speed of light is impossible.

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Originally Posted by C0FFINCASE

Traveling to the future wouldn't work as well as you seem to think. For the simple fact its lack of existence prevents you from going there. Also you're assume speed of light travel will cause time travel, which there isn't any reason to.

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That isn't what occurs when you travel to the future. In fact, traveling to the future is the only form of time travel right now that we know is possible. Google the twin paradox. If we were to jump in to a space ship traveling 99.99% the speed of light, and traveled for one year before coming back to earth, 150 years may have passed on earth (not the exact amount - would have to do the math). We would have therefore traveled 149 years in the future, entirely possible.

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Originally Posted by Chris

The idea that changing the past actually prevents the changing of the past.

If you go back in time and alter anything that leads to the point in which you actually would go back in time then in fact you never will go back in time. meaning nothing ever changed.

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That's just a variation of the grandfather paradox.

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Originally Posted by Chris

Time travel to a future time is possible.

The only issue would be the fact that there would be no reality until the past reached you.

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No reality until past reached you? o.o Read above post.

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Originally Posted by Chris

Look up the theories of going faster than the speed of light.

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Faster than speed of light is theoretically meant to take you back in time, not forward.

@Alex and grandfather paradox: True nothing in theory would happen, and if that were to be the case then time travel would just be a method of amusement. It would make time travel almost equivalent to that of a trip to the restaraunt Medieval Times, a nice little visit to a past that is set and unchanging. A bit boring and suspect in my opinion.

Impossible and dangerous. I think that the whole idea is ridiculous though. Why would you want to go into the future?

Omgawsh!!! that's why they built the large hydron proton collider... ITS A FORNT.. they're gonna send crazies back in time to alter the universe ZOMG!
i gotta stop them *calls 911* XD. lol

I almost broke my brain thinking about paradoxes once.

I just kept thinking about how, if you somehow killed yourself/prevented your existance, you couldn't go back in time, so you would exist, so you would go back in time, etc.

It was all very confusing, and makes even attempting time travel to the past seem more dangerous than anything.

i just got a headache.. thanks lol.

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Originally Posted by Artificial

I don't think this aspect of time travel should be discussed. The energy needed to create a wormhole required for time travel is unfeasable. Better to think of it as a thought experiment, to theoretically determine if it's possible and the outcomes that would occur should it be accomplished.

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It not feasible to consider making one now, but we could go run into one if we found such a cosmic event.

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Originally Posted by Artificial

Did I miss something in physics? Exceeding the speed of light, can you explain the reasoning behind your statement a little bit? I have heard some physicists argue that when near a black hole, relative to an observer far away from the hole you could appear to be traveling FTL, and relative to them you may go back in time, but I think 99.9% of physicists will agree that traveling faster than the speed of light is impossible.

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The key point is that "relative" time travel isn't time travel. Black hole is basically spacetime being pulled in by some massive thing with an insane gravitational force that is basically bending reality around itself. Things there stop or slow down compared to things outside. Relative part is they slow down, we keep going, so time travel isn't so much they went forward as slowed down.That's the argument. Some people call that time travel,and others don't. To me its more of a you've gone out and slowed yourself down and every thing else kept going. Plus you can't really travel at the speed of light, it reaches its speed due to its dual nature as wave and particle.

http://www.zamandayolculuk.com/cetin...rived_7071.jpg
The theory of relativity allows for time travel into the future, going at high speeds returning to earth only aging slightly compared to your peers. Einstein's theory is a theory of space and time, it should be no surprise that black holes offer, in concept, a way to travel through space and time as well. Since it is possible in concept only, it does not mean that it has been achieved as of yet. Black holes are the product of a collapse of a massive star that has such an extreme gravitational force that it keeps light particles from leaving its surface, making the star practically invisible. Black holes act like a one way street, only allowing objects to fall into the black hole but nothing can escape from its gravitational pull. In the 1960's a mathematician from New Zealand, Roy Kerr said, that if a black hole is rotating a singularity forms in the shape of a ring. In principle, it would be possible to dive into such a space and through the ring, to emerge in another place and time. The "Kerr Solution" was the first mathematical example of a time machine. Nobody took Kerr's idea seriously until the 1970's when astronomers discovered what seemed to be real black holes in our galaxy and the hearts of other galaxies. There is an interior tunnel in the exact Kerr solution of the Einstein Field of Equations, but it is unstable. The slightest disturbance inside would seal it off and turn the tunnel into a physical singularity which would allow nothing to pass through it.

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Originally Posted by C0FFINCASE

It not feasible to consider making one now, but we could go run into one if we found such a cosmic event.

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In theory the event of time traveling would require the use of a fuel with an infinitely negative amount of power, in a sense, Dark Matter, the matter that all of space and many of the anomolies of space are created of and built around. And as Dark Matter is the only atomic thing in all of existance (as far as we know) with an infinitely negative amount of energy to use, it would allow for it take place, or to be that cosmic event that you mentioned.

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Originally Posted by C0FFINCASE

The key point is that "relative" time travel isn't time travel. Black hole is basically spacetime being pulled in by some massive thing with an insane gravitational force that is basically bending reality around itself. Things there stop or slow down compared to things outside. Relative part is they slow down, we keep going, so time travel isn't so much they went forward as slowed down.That's the argument. Some people call that time travel,and others don't. To me its more of a you've gone out and slowed yourself down and every thing else kept going. Plus you can't really travel at the speed of light, it reaches its speed due to its dual nature as wave and particle.

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SLowing down would be traveling to a time in the past, which in theory would allow for the world around yo to continue moving and allow you to return to a previous point in time, but since you would be stopping or even reversing the atomic flow of whatever you would be traveling. Speeding up the atomic flow, in sense of what you are saying would do the polar opposite and allow you to travel foward in time. If actuality could follow the theory.

Sorry.. thats just confusing :D

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Originally Posted by Taylor123123

Sorry.. thats just confusing :D

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And that is not helpful to the discussion at hand. What is confusing? Why is it confusing? Obviously this is a discussion thread, not a statement. Engage in the conversation, don't just comment for a quick post count boost.

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Originally Posted by C0FFINCASE

You could also in theory exceed the speed of light. Problem with all of these is control, no clue where you end up or how to get back.

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Maybe...but if an object went the speed of light it would most likely just, well..explode, cave in, what ever terms you would like to use.

@Soul Eater: He/She was simply saying that all of this is confusing to him/her. Calm down ^-^ -pats-

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Originally Posted by Slash

Maybe...but if an object went the speed of light it would most likely just, well..explode, cave in, what ever terms you would like to use.

@Soul Eater: He/She was simply saying that all of this is confusing to him/her. Calm down ^-^ -pats-

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Going at the speed of light would cause the vehicle to become spaggeticised. It would just lengthen and then be crushed into nothingness, in theory, since no vehicle has gone the speed of light, its not possible to tell.

@second statement: i just like it when people contribute to conversations and not just make a fast statement. thats all, lol. And my UN is just one word dude, Souleater.

time travel will come true.

uh.. wdf?10char

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Originally Posted by Mx250z

time travel will come true.

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It is true. Our astronauts are proof.

i was watching science channel.. they were designing this space ship that travels so fast that when you leave earth and go into space. your traveling so fast that what feels like 5 years in space is like 10 years on earth. so it's sorta like time travel. to the future.?

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Originally Posted by Mx250z

i was watching science channel.. they were designing this space ship that travels so fast that when you leave earth and go into space. your traveling so fast that what feels like 5 years in space is like 10 years on earth. so it's sorta like time travel. to the future.?

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That is correct, according to Einstein's theory of special relativity. Time is relative, and put simply, as you approach the speed of light time dilates. Astronauts in orbit around the earth experience this effect. Sergei Krikalev has logged the most time in space, and I do believe he therefore also holds the record for being the greatest time traveler.

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About 800 days he was in orbit going 17,000 miles an hour. So, he is right now a one forty-eighth of a second younger then he would have been if he had stayed home. So, that means that when he came back to the earth, he found that one forty-eighth of a second to the future of where he expected it to be. So this man has actually time traveled one forty-eighth of a second to the future.

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Originally Posted by Artificial

That is correct, according to Einstein's theory of special relativity. Time is relative, and put simply, as you approach the speed of light time dilates. Astronauts in orbit around the earth experience this effect. Sergei Krikalev has logged the most time in space, and I do believe he therefore also holds the record for being the greatest time traveler.

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this is true, but considering how vast the vessal would need to be, there would be no amount of fuel large or powerful enough to fuel it. and as i recall size is relative to speed.

and moving at the speed of light would cause so much strain on the vehicle the vessal would be obliterated before it could reach lightspeed.

Light speed isn't possible, just so you know :p Speed of light is like absolute zero - it's a limit. Special relativity also affects the relative mass of the object, an effect known as mass dilation. When a net force is applied to an object, work will be done according to the formula W = fs; its kinetic energy will also increase (Ke = 1/2 mv^2). The speed of light is a limit so, as the speed of the object approaches the speed of light, rather energy than energy being converted into kinetic energy (that would increase its speed), it is instead converted into mass. The relationship between force, mass and acceleration is given by F = ma. Thus, to reach the speed of light (i.e. keep the object accelerating), you would need an infinitely large force, not possible.

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Originally Posted by Artificial

Light speed isn't possible, just so you know :p Speed of light is like absolute zero - it's a limit. Special relativity also affects the relative mass of the object, an effect known as mass dilation. When a net force is applied to an object, work will be done according to the formula W = fs; its kinetic energy will also increase (Ke = 1/2 mv^2). The speed of light is a limit so, as the speed of the object approaches the speed of light, rather energy than energy being converted into kinetic energy (that would increase its speed), it is instead converted into mass. The relationship between force, mass and acceleration is given by F = ma. Thus, to reach the speed of light (i.e. keep the object accelerating), you would need an infinitely large force, not possible.

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there are no end to the possibilities if it is given the right amount of research. There are forces that are infinitely powerful in the universe and would allow for the conversions of kinetic energy and mass, along with the dialations to be controlled in the correct manner. There are instances where the speed of light are exceeded if only briefly, it is rare, and does not happen often, but it has happened in the past.

As for the conversion into mass as the speed of light is approached, the fuel would allow for the continued speed increase which would allow further approach to the speed of light. Dark matter and special nuclear fuels with comparable properties would allow for such encroaching. As the expansion of mass would require a more massive fuel force, the possible remedy could be fuel reserves that would be used once a limit that is allowed by the current fuel. The reserves would allow for further advancement.

Nothing is impossible Alex, you know that.

Firstly, you're talking about tachyons. They are hypothetical particles used in thought experiments, not observed scientific phenomena. If you truly believe there are 'instances where the speed of light are exceeded', please link me to some hard proof - a scientific journal would suffice. I can guarantee you won't find any.

Your proposal of dark matter and dark energy to violate the principle of special relativity is, in itself a contradiction. Now, I'm no cosmologist, but from what I've read they're linked more so to Einstein's general relativity. It should also be noted that little is known about dark energy/matter, so all we have to go on is proposed theories. Most cosmologists agree that dark energy is causing the accelerating rate of expansion of our universe, and as this rate continues to increase, some surrounding galaxy's radial velocity will exceed the speed of light; this is because of a bending in space-time, and thus does not violate special relativity.

If you mean other sources of fuel to reach the speed of light than let me clarify: to reach the speed of light you would need an infinitely large source of energy. Since our universe is finite, that is not possible. Too little is known about dark matter/energy for it to hold any real sway in this debate.

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Originally Posted by Artificial

That is correct, according to Einstein's theory of special relativity. Time is relative, and put simply, as you approach the speed of light time dilates. Astronauts in orbit around the earth experience this effect. Sergei Krikalev has logged the most time in space, and I do believe he therefore also holds the record for being the greatest time traveler.

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This is pretty amazing even if it's such a small ammount of time.. think of what will be in 20 years!

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Originally Posted by ~Souleater~

this is true, but considering how vast the vessal would need to be, there would be no amount of fuel large or powerful enough to fuel it. and as i recall size is relative to speed.

and moving at the speed of light would cause so much strain on the vehicle the vessal would be obliterated before it could reach lightspeed.

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They were designing a ship that was "solar powered" using the radiation and uv found in space. and the hydrogen molecules... seeming how there is so much because it's a star's main fuel source.

Let me just post something for those who haven't yet studied special relativity.

http://www.ucolick.org/~bolte/AY4_00...tion_graph.gif

This is a time dilation graph, but its the same curvature for mass dilation as well. As you approach the speed of light, the mass of the object becomes unfeasibly large. At one point, it would be so large that, if you applied all of the energy in our galaxy as a force, the speed increase would be infinitely small - it still wouldn't hit the speed of light.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/0/5...693c50946a.png

The equation for mass dilation. The math doesn't lie - based on current scientific knowledge reaching the speed of light is impossible; it's a universal constant. However, as Souleater said, I won't say it's impossible. That's what makes science so brilliant: it is continually evolving as scientists continue to research and build on existing ideas.

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Originally Posted by Artificial

Firstly, you're talking about tachyons. They are hypothetical particles used in thought experiments, not observed scientific phenomena. If you truly believe there are 'instances where the speed of light are exceeded', please link me to some hard proof - a scientific journal would suffice. I can guarantee you won't find any.

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Take into account that i neer said that a vessal would exceed the speed of light. I said nothing of other sources.
Sound pulses exceed speed of light - LiveScience- msnbc.com

""I believe that this is the first experimental demonstration of sound going faster than light," Robertson said. Past research has proven it possible to transmit electrical and even light pulses with group velocities exceeding c." from near the middle of the article.

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Originally Posted by Artificial

Your proposal of dark matter and dark energy to violate the principle of special relativity is, in itself a contradiction. Now, I'm no cosmologist, but from what I've read they're linked more so to Einstein's general relativity. It should also be noted that little is known about dark energy/matter, so all we have to go on is proposed theories. Most cosmologists agree that dark energy is causing the accelerating rate of expansion of our universe, and as this rate continues to increase, some surrounding galaxy's radial velocity will exceed the speed of light; this is because of a bending in space-time, and thus does not violate special relativity.

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Dark matter is technically considered a tachyom, however WIMP (Weakly Interactive Massive Particles) Dark Matter is only a matter of time before it can be engineered, as again, so long as the appropriate research is performed to study and create said matter.

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Originally Posted by Artificial

If you mean other sources of fuel to reach the speed of light than let me clarify: to reach the speed of light you would need an infinitely large source of energy. Since our universe is finite, that is not possible. Too little is known about dark matter/energy for it to hold any real sway in this debate.

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Infinitely large is not always the case, fact is, so log as the fuel is infinitely powerful, it is possible to encroach upon Lightspeed. Quanta tunneling may be a good way to forego the "C" Vacuum and the Scharnhorst effect due to the fact that so little cn be proven about it, and that it is not a tachyom. As it is not a form of energy, it is open to discussion. It is also the only true violation of Special Relativety.

EDIT:
If you are reading and are wonder what Dark matter is [theorized] to be, read up on it, i even got you the link. http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physic...rk_matter.html

Tachyons are an interesting concept.. but again just a concept.
I've spent a lot of time just rolling around wondering if worm holes were a ideal method of time travel or if Tachyons could exist.. but the 10 dimensions thing seems to exist more in a real state in my mind.. though some of the dimensions are far out there and hard to comprehend they do seem logical. Tachyons and Worm Holes seem to be more of a chance and gamble of luck to try and figure them out. if that rambling could be put together I hope it's in depth and useful xD

Sure, it's possible. It's "proved" by science and shit. But so is stupid shit like [insert example here] Can't think of anything at the moment... But yeah, just because some damn scientist can make up a reason it works, doesn't mean it does work.

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Originally Posted by Syrathos

Tachyons are an interesting concept.. but again just a concept.
I've spent a lot of time just rolling around wondering if worm holes were a ideal method of time travel or if Tachyons could exist.. but the 10 dimensions thing seems to exist more in a real state in my mind.. though some of the dimensions are far out there and hard to comprehend they do seem logical. Tachyons and Worm Holes seem to be more of a chance and gamble of luck to try and figure them out. if that rambling could be put together I hope it's in depth and useful xD

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well, since tachyons are only theory since no existance can be proven, the is no way to say they would be pliable, according to Arti, and considering the fact that wormholes cannot be be utilized, it is also not pliable. as i had said, they would be the most logical and efficient way to travel through time, and without a gamble, so long as it can be correctly utilized.

and 10 dimensions would be pliable to the theory of time travel, however dimensional travel is a seperate issue.