Raivu's opinion of god

I'd like to debate god. PLEASE NO FLAMING! Just hear me out and debate whether or not you agree, disagree, and why.

My Opinion:
I believe god is the feeling of "Hope"

nothing more
nothing less

My reason for this, is because it seems that the only time people turn to god or ask for forgiveness from god is when they've done something wrong and hope for karma to not come back and bit them in the ass, and when they're in desperate need of something/anything.

People speak of a 3rd man. Seeing that "3rd man" who guides you to safety or back to life, but mysteriously disappears. I believe that to be your conscience guiding you. Your "Jimminy Cricket"

So I believe that praying to "god" is really just hoping for something.

What do you think?

Everyone needs guidance at some point or other in their lives. Take it from someone who's repeatedly experienced crises of this nature. While there is life, there is hope, and vice versa, but I do subscribe to the school of thought that there could be something thats actually true about the god concept. Hell, I even saw a couple of genuine miracles take place when I visited a famous holy man. I still have the pendant he gave me, after he produced it from thin air.

Back on the subject, I'm not so sure about the concept of the 3rd man being your conscience - I'd say this is more of a time when an astral entity decides to help you out somehow or other, on a whim, based on your karma. And, like it or not, karma is a very real thing, no matter that you can suffer the consequences later than you'd imagine, or never at all in this life.

However, by that same coin, they can't escape from the consequences of their actions. At best, they might get a reprieve, tho sometimes they can wipe out bad karma if they sincerely repent their actions and work towards self-improvement.

To sum up, while prayer is mainly the echo of unfulfilled (as of yet) hopes, it's not the case in point for everybody. Prayer is an act of gratitude as much it is of channeling your hopes and dreams and hoping a higher power heard you.

Then what do you call the man who lives a righteous life or devotes himself to being a leader in his faith? These do not turn to "god" in fear or need. They live in what they believe to be constant contact and seeking of "god". I for many years wanted to be a catholic priest, I had done nothing wrong, feared nothing, needed nothing. I only wanted to be closer to God and be of service to others regardless of my fate. I do my best to live in a way that is good and don't really care what becomes of me here or in the next life, I should what there to be a next life but there may not be.
If the 3rd man is the conscious then you also assume that a huge number of people of perceive and imagine this as a man/human. For me I'd assume its that person's guardian angel or a direct intervention by God.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by C0FFINCASE

Then what do you call the man who lives a righteous life or devotes himself to being a leader in his faith? These do not turn to "god" in fear or need. They live in what they believe to be constant contact and seeking of "god". I for many years wanted to be a catholic priest, I had done nothing wrong, feared nothing, needed nothing. I only wanted to be closer to God and be of service to others regardless of my fate. I do my best to live in a way that is good and don't really care what becomes of me here or in the next life, I should what there to be a next life but there may not be.
If the 3rd man is the conscious then you also assume that a huge number of people of perceive and imagine this as a man/human. For me I'd assume its that person's guardian angel or a direct intervention by God.

---

Off Topic: I love your avatar. Great way to show respect :)

On topic: I'm not saying people shouldn't believe in god or seek god out. ^_^ I'm all for doing what you need to do however you want to do it.
What I'm saying is, that maybe what people call "god" is really just the feeling of hope.
For example, when people argue, they'll often find themselves arguing the same exact point as eachother, but it'll sound like they're arguing something different because they're worded differently. I feel that "god" is really another word for hope, and in that sense everybody is seeking the same thing.
I hope I'm not offending your catholic beliefs by saying any of this, and if I did then I'm very sorry. I just don't see a difference between asking for gods help, and hoping for something.
Since you know A LOT more about this, would you mind helping me out? How do you perceive god, and why?

Honestly, I'm not religious. I dont believe in God yet I do believe in Karma. My mother calls me Agnostic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raivu

Off Topic: I love your avatar. Great way to show respect :)

---

Thank you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raivu

On topic: I'm not saying people shouldn't believe in god or seek god out. ^_^ I'm all for doing what you need to do however you want to do it.
What I'm saying is, that maybe what people call "god" is really just the feeling of hope.
For example, when people argue, they'll often find themselves arguing the same exact point as eachother, but it'll sound like they're arguing something different because they're worded differently. I feel that "god" is really another word for hope, and in that sense everybody is seeking the same thing.
I hope I'm not offending your catholic beliefs by saying any of this, and if I did then I'm very sorry. I just don't see a difference between asking for gods help, and hoping for something.
Since you know A LOT more about this, would you mind helping me out? How do you perceive god, and why?

---

You're not offending any thing but you're missing a key element of what a god is in the sense of most religions. For something to be a god it must have these characteristic: omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotent. On top of this a god is an entity, which means it thinks and acts of its own will.
So no, hoping for something to happen and asking for God to do something are different. Just as you hoping I give you $5 and asking me for it is different.
You reference doing things in life because you want to or have to do for you, I'd argue that those people do them for God. Not because he ask them to or because of some reward system but rather because they have chosen to acknowledge the force/being/thing that we are discussing and see it as benevolent and live their life in a way that reflects acknowledgment of that benevolence.
I'd also like to bring to attention people often make in looking for answers. Take for instance the meaning of life: people often say its pleasure or knowledge, or righteousness. But we often find people with just one of those are not happy and live pathetic lives, but we often see people that have all three in moderation live good lives. What happens here is people mistake a part for the whole or see some aspect of something greater but call the aspect the thing. God gives hopes. By the nature of existing and in theory having made this world and offering something beyond this God gives hope. Does this make God hope alone? I don't think so. I feel that if God is omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotent he certainly must also be good and love as well as hope. Not all but most will say a god also has to be omnibenevolence. That is to say that God must be good because of the nature of reasoning and the way things are for man, many feel that.

aaah ok. I understand. ^^ I'd love to acknowledge it with a better answer or a response/debate, but I know when I'm beat. I still don't believe in him, but it's very useful and very good to have an insight like that. Seeing something from both perspectives is the most helpful thing anyone can have.

What Christians/buddhists/hindus/etc. call God(s) I do not believe in.
I do, however, believe that we are not the most advanced creatures that live.
I believe there are other creatures, more powerful creatures that we cannot always see that intervene when they see what they'd deem as primitive life forms not playing nicely/going through a tough time.

The reason I believe in them and not Gods: I do not believe they are supreme beings that are purely good and created the earth/universe. I believe they are simply other living creatures that are wiser than us, possibly the ones causing crop circles, possibly invisible beings that treat us as their delicate pets that they want to get along.

My beliefs are obviously different than most, but I simply do not believe we are the supreme beings, as we're obviously pretty dumb, and I do not believe there was a being/beings that CREATED a universe.

tl;dr: I believe in wiser-than-human creatures that intervene in our lives to keep us in line/show us what to do/not do.

EDIT: Or this could be my form of "hope" even though I do not pray to them/worship them. I just don't think we're #1.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frostbite

I just don't think we're #1.

---

This is one of the most logical sentences I've ever heard come from another human being. :) And I completely agree.
I'm along the same lines you are on this subject
I believe in karma
I believe in luck
I believe in science
I do NOT believe there is a higher power such as a god, however at the same time I don't believe we're the best or the highest power there is.

In the end only ignorant fools would believe humans are the ultimate thing in all of reality.
I've chosen to believe in a divine in a similar sense to Frostbite, I just feel that the other more advanced thing(s) are worthy of being called God. In the end that's what a god is. Something beyond you ad more powerful than you.
Based on what science tells me about how the universe works and was created it seem logical to me there is life else where in the universe and that existed before us. But when I look all the way back and know there was singularity and no reason for it to ever expand to this or in this way and see that after only 3 or 4 "rolls of the dice" we happened and in this way, I feel something has to have guided that. Because statistically we shouldn't exist. Our system and galaxy are young and either third or fourth generation and we can tell that based on what we're made of as creatures and planet wise as well as simply by looking out into space. When you look into space towards the "edge" of the universe you look back in time and when you look far enough out you see back to singularity which is to say you see nothing and from nothing the universe burst forth. Its not just some crazy words at the start of the Bible(granted I'm only using the and God spoke into the nothing and something came forth) in that sense it really did happen that way. The argument is what caused it. An we know the rules is for there to be a reaction there is a cause and nothing can cause nothing, so something that was apart from the nothing set off this reality and possibly guided it. Whatever that was I will call God.

Of course I've also chosen or was raise to interpret all that in the Catholic stand point which draws criticism because most assume things of the church and many in it have no clue what they actually believe. I'm well aware of the beliefs of the church and while I disagree with some I agree with most if not as divinely inspired but rather as practical. ie sex before marriage is a sin, I doubt it but is a pretty good idea not to have sex and risk stds and children and helps to control population so it makes sense to discourage it.

God and everything in religion is just based on your faith and how far you are willing to jump for your faith. No one is technically right, while no one is technically wrong either. There is no right or wrong, there only is.

The difference is that what I believe in are just more evolved beings, what you believe in is a creator.
I believe that what created our universe was obviously something like an explosion, as the universe is expanding, and that explosion was from formerly ever-present chemicals.
I do not believe a being caused that, I believe they just finally got close enough to touch eachother or whatever.
The beings I believe in may be on one of the trillions of other planets in the trillions of other Galaxies, but they have the ability to intervene if they see us getting out of hand. They are not supernatural, just vastly more advanced